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Any new world record set for either F-Zero, F-Zero X or F-Zero GX needs to have video proof
I agree
71%
 71%  [ 10 ]
I do not agree
28%
 28%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 14

WMJ
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F-Zero X proof policy regarding world records
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In agreement with Tim and Westu I decided to create this topic to get some hard rules regarding proof for world records.
For now, this topic is meant for discussion so we can all agree on some rules everyone can live with. I hate to be a big meanie and ask for video proof everytime so that's why I think it is important to have some hard rules. I'll edit this post so the rules that are agreed upon are listed here.
I'll start with one rule regarding world records that I think is the most important .

1. If you beat a world record you need to have video proof.
The only notable exception to this are maxed out speed records like Sector Beta.

2. If you get a world record and submit it to MFO, make sure to drop a notification in the forum.

Reason: If nobody ever cared to make videos of anything, would we have a competition like this today? I don't think so. Besides, the world records require a very high level of skill at this point. People like Westu, me, JKT, Dave Phaneuf, Muumu, UchihaSasuke and Linner have all put in much time to make videos of our records. Outside of the element of trust that video proof provides it is also very important for supporting the community and keeping this competition alive.
 

Personally I think this is the most important rule. It is important for the protection of world records and it should benefit everyone.

Edit: rule 2 is added and I agree with Tim although you would need to do that anyway if you're going to provide the video proof.

Yazzo
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Re: F-Zero X proof policy regarding world records
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I agree with this. there's alot of unproved wrs for sure, which isn't good for the community as you mentioned. Although this is something that should be a rule for every F-Zero game, not just X.

A photo shouldn't be that hard to take, even though videos are of course prefered, a photo is better than nothing.

TBK
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WMJ wrote:

If you beat a world record you need to have video proof.

This should be the main rule and be in effect from today on.

It's not very supportive towards the community of active players to submit new World Records without mentioning them anywhere. So here's rule #2, which is just an obligatory thing if you ask me:

2. If you get a World Record and submit it to MFO, make sure to drop a notification in the forum.

samurai goroh
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I partially agree...
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Is not like I would do a WR for a track or lap, but there's still the chance to tie a WR in speed (in this game). Those are easier, expecially in tracks like Sector Beta...

I disagree with the "If nobody ever cared to make videos of anything, would we have a competition like this today?". Sharing strateguies was as important as been able to watch a video years ago where recording a video & uploading it was uncommon... Of course, this applies only for WR, but what if you improve your own record? Should you still need to prove it via video?

WMJ
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Yazzo wrote:

A photo shouldn't be that hard to take, even though videos are of course prefered, a photo is better than nothing.

I realise for the GBA F-Zero's it's generally a lot harder to provide video proof so that's why I think the video proof part should be for the normal console F-Zero's, although this discussion is specifically for F-Zero X.

samurai goroh wrote:

Is not like I would do a WR for a track or lap, but there's still the chance to tie a WR in speed (in this game). Those are easier, expecially in tracks like Sector Beta...

What if you improve your own record? Should you still need to prove it via video?

Good point. I think it's unreasonable to require video proof for those maxed out speeds like Sector Beta although if possible it's preferred. I don't see why beating your own record shouldn't require video proof. You could beat your own time by a lot and create a mystery world record like that so in my opinion that shouldn't be an exception. 

Yazzo
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"although this discussion is specifically for F-Zero X."

it shouldnt be just for X. general forums anyone?

making a video is also hard for some people, but everyone can take a photo and upload it. it would be enough for me, regardless if it's for the GBA F-Zero's or for the console ones.

WMJ
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Yazzo wrote:

"although this discussion is specifically for F-Zero X."

it shouldnt be just for X. general forums anyone?

making a video is also hard for some people, but everyone can take a photo and upload it. it would be enough for me, regardless if it's for the GBA F-Zero's or for the console ones.

It's fine by me if you want to expand this topic to make it relevant for all F-Zero games since they all need to have some hard rules on this.

I don't see why making a video is hard for some people when it comes to the regular console games. If you're willing to put in the time to beat a world record you should be at least able to record it on a VCR. You can record the VCR footage with a digicam or whatever as long as people can watch it. I don't know about anyone else but when I beat a world record it is something I'm proud of having achieved, so it's an honor for me to release a video to the public that people are willing to watch.

Regardless, if it's really a problem for someone to release a video I'd be willing to make a high quality video for them but then you'd have to send the tape or DVD to me.

Westu
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I agree... in my opinion if you just post a wr time on ladder without providing any proof or notification even, it shows somewhat ignorance towards a great accomplishment, which is something i dont understand at all(damn japanese)... Like WMJ said its a great feeling to be able to put a WR video to public and have people willing to watch and learn from it :p

on the topic wheter the competition would exist at this level without all these videos i'd say no, like the old saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words, imagine what a vid is, believe me i've been many times in a situation where someone is describing a new strat to me in words and quite frankly most of the time i've no idea what the person in the MSN is talking about... i like to compare it to Climax where there's hardly any vids and even nowadays im "discovering" old WR strats, it's hard to put in words but if you've ever played climax seriously you'd know what im talking about

on the GBA issue its almost impossible to record a good vid without GB player on GC, so there i would see that the "strat demos" could be a possible choice for anyone having a cam...

GX is pretty much dead nowadays and there's replay mode anyway so i dont see any trouble there

however these rules would apply to SFC also naturally

"GX sucks big balls" -BPA
"anyhow westu's FF time is godly i don't think any player will ever beat it" -JKT.... touch� Neutral
"non-f-zero games, Yugioh, MV" -JkL
"The Westu" -Sherif
"You are the only player i fear when you play" -Daniel
Uchiha Madao
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something i'm interested to know is what would happen with the currently unproven times.

should those records be deleted and the affected players requested to resubmit them with photo proof at the least? i know this is done in some of the mario kart player's pages when someone has a dubious time.

video proof is not easy for some games but photo proof is basically required since cams are so commonplace nowadays. even cheap $30 phones have cameras so there 's no excuse for no photo proof even if your record is old and you can't do a vid since a photo can still be made as long as your cart isn't erased.

also, we should set a minimum that top 3 or top 5 times must have photo proof to be accepted on the site since that's the pinnacle of a given track and there shouldn't be a doubt of those records and unproven times should be deleted. the bad thing is that this would require a lot of work to determine who has top 3 or top 5 times in each track in every ladder but maybe things could be easier if we only check for those odd people who have a low rank but one very high ranked time since it's much more likely for someone in the overall top 5 to be in many track's top 5 than someone in 20th or lower to have a top 5 time. another thing is what to do with old people who aren't around.

btw, people who play FZSNES on SNES should make photo proof often since those carts are old and are very prone to dying.

WMJ
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UchihaSasuke wrote:

something i'm interested to know is what would happen with the currently unproven times.

should those records be deleted and the affected players requested to resubmit them with photo proof at the least? i know this is done in some of the mario kart player's pages when someone has a dubious time.

video proof is not easy for some games but photo proof is basically required since cams are so commonplace nowadays. even cheap $30 phones have cameras so there 's no excuse for no photo proof even if your record is old and you can't do a vid since a photo can still be made as long as your cart isn't erased.

also, we should set a minimum that top 3 or top 5 times must have photo proof to be accepted on the site since that's the pinnacle of a given track and there shouldn't be a doubt of those records and unproven times should be deleted. the bad thing is that this would require a lot of work to determine who has top 3 or top 5 times in each track in every ladder but maybe things could be easier if we only check for those odd people who have a low rank but one very high ranked time since it's much more likely for someone in the overall top 5 to be in many track's top 5 than someone in 20th or lower to have a top 5 time. another thing is what to do with old people who aren't around.

There weren't any strict rules on this in the past so in my opinion it's too late now to demand proof of records set under different rules in relation to proof at the time. If we are all to agree on the world record - video proof rule then that should be a rule as of today. There aren't many particular dubious times in the rankings now, except for dizzle747's Port Town 2 speed which isn't recognised as a world record now anyway.

I think outside the element of trust all the other reasons I have mentioned so far are just as important. That's why photo proof is rather meaningless for me since this competition can only exist if it, for a large part, is trust based. I trust most of the players with unproven world records and there are many ways to fake photo proof anyway so I don't think for the regular console games that is needed at all.

I do agree that it would be really nice if it becomes common sense to people with top 3 times to make video proof but it's not something I think should be required. If there's videos for all the world records then everyone knows what they're up against and that's enough for me. Besides, any player that has top 3 times is on the border of getting a world record so they know they should be recording in case they do get it if they were to improve those times.

samurai goroh
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Port Town 2 WR speed
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I could never got to fly well here, but I think that the record is possible. I still remember when I got 1511 by just boost-rail-sliding... (I got 1555 by flying)

WMJ
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samurai goroh wrote:

I could never got to fly well here, but I think that the record is possible. I still remember when I got 1511 by just boost-rail-sliding... (I got 1555 by flying)

For the record, I'm not in charge of accepting or rejecting times/speeds. I didn't say the speed was impossible I just think it's dubious that he got it. I'd really like to give him credit for finding an awesome way to float on PT2 but now I don't know what to think of it. This stuff is exactly the reason why I think this rule is necessary.

Uchiha Madao
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i think someone needs to PM him and ask him about it.

JkLoser
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Lets say for me, that doesn't have a vcr, and god knows I'm to lazy to buy one, to lazy to record on vcr etc etc...

Say now if I beat a wr, would a rather bad run/ok run with wr ghost, and my top 5 times be ok? cause then you'll see my ghost, you'll see the strat, and you'll see my top 5 times?

And hell no that I gonna submit a picture for top 3 times :p no offence, but I'm to lazy ;p

 

Also are these rules just for X, or for all games? cause require video for SFC records are just dumb, atleast wr vids. perhaps demand a run where you show the strat, and your top 5 times.

Old and tired... ;p
FunStyle
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In Port Town there is a possiblility to make a Tddtd.But The Problems are the many Turns,and so it makes it impossible to land on the Course after the Tddtd.

I´ve tested it yesterday,and WMJ doesn´t get it,too. Maybe,like Jim Mitchell said,there is a Floating Strat,no one found yet.

WMJ
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JkLoser wrote:

Lets say for me, that doesn't have a vcr, and god knows I'm to lazy to buy one, to lazy to record on vcr etc etc...

Say now if I beat a wr, would a rather bad run/ok run with wr ghost, and my top 5 times be ok? cause then you'll see my ghost, you'll see the strat, and you'll see my top 5 times?

And hell no that I gonna submit a picture for top 3 times :p no offence, but I'm to lazy ;p

 

Also are these rules just for X, or for all games? cause require video for SFC records are just dumb, atleast wr vids. perhaps demand a run where you show the strat, and your top 5 times.

I didn't realise there were still people that don't have any means to record a video these days. That does make me wonder how you are going to record those demonstration videos with your world record ghost. Using a VCR is just one option I suggested but it doesn't matter how you record the video as long as it is watchable for other people (and I remember watching many F-Zero GX videos from you). I don't see why there should be a difference in rules between F-Zero X and F-Zero SNES. Strategies are pretty straightforward for SNES since it's all about perfection so strategy demos are not really interesting there. Anyway, I've added a poll so vote whatever you think is right.

I can't say that I've tried floating on PT2 much so maybe I should go for it and see how far I get.

JkLoser
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 but life goes forward, living with gf, not my old computer.

The way I could record is with a camera, but I won't record for 1-2 hours in straight cause I MIGHT get a wr. Also this way, you'll see the top 5 times in motion, wich is harder to fake, also see my ghost in X, and in Snes see the potential.

I'm split here, I don't mind if some people can't record, and get wrs. As long as they provide some proof, and provide strat if they change the current wr strat. But as everyone should be able to buy some recording device[for 5euro you get a decent webcam]. So for me, As long as they record a video close to wr vid, with current strat, and if ghost is aviable for the game, it should include a ghost.

Btw, anyone should be able to post atleast picture, if a time/speed is doubtful, and no proof provided, for god sake, instead of discussion if it's possible, delete it ;p

 

Edit:

 

Vcr is dead tech also btw, extremly hard to get hold on one where I live atleast[I would guess I would have to travel 100km, then I might get a vcr :p I've only recorded my videos direcly from computer[connecting video console to computer], or camera. But VCR is hard to get here atleast, don't know how it is on other places. But sweden shouldn't be that different ;p

Edit2:

Also, shouldn't the rules aply to gba games also? I mean lets say, vcr I would need maybe 10euro, at most 20euro. GC and GBA player you need maybe 30-40euro to get. So it cost wise, it doesn't make a big different in money[unless you say its 100% more ;p]. Shouldn't be special rules for any game imo, but GX where you have replay mode ofc.

I know optimal rule should be that all wr must have videos, but then you can't make it different from game to game. Games without the replay option, is harder for some people to record wrs, but just cause of that, you can't demand videos for console games, and not handled. So if a rule should be implanted, make it for all games. 

Old and tired... ;p
WMJ
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JkLoser wrote:

 but life goes forward, living with gf, not my old computer.

The way I could record is with a camera, but I won't record for 1-2 hours in straight cause I MIGHT get a wr. Also this way, you'll see the top 5 times in motion, wich is harder to fake, also see my ghost in X, and in Snes see the potential.

I'm split here, I don't mind if some people can't record, and get wrs. As long as they provide some proof, and provide strat if they change the current wr strat. But as everyone should be able to buy some recording device[for 5euro you get a decent webcam]. So for me, As long as they record a video close to wr vid, with current strat, and if ghost is aviable for the game, it should include a ghost.

Btw, anyone should be able to post atleast picture, if a time/speed is doubtful, and no proof provided, for god sake, instead of discussion if it's possible, delete it ;p

 Vcr is dead tech also btw, extremly hard to get hold on one where I live atleast[I would guess I would have to travel 100km, then I might get a vcr :p I've only recorded my videos direcly from computer[connecting video console to computer], or camera. But VCR is hard to get here atleast, don't know how it is on other places. But sweden shouldn't be that different ;p

Also, shouldn't the rules aply to gba games also? I mean lets say, vcr I would need maybe 10euro, at most 20euro. GC and GBA player you need maybe 30-40euro to get. So it cost wise, it doesn't make a big different in money[unless you say its 100% more ;p]. Shouldn't be special rules for any game imo, but GX where you have replay mode ofc.

I know optimal rule should be that all wr must have videos, but then you can't make it different from game to game. Games without the replay option, is harder for some people to record wrs, but just cause of that, you can't demand videos for console games, and not handled. So if a rule should be implanted, make it for all games. 

The problem with top 5 times is that anybody can just use a gameshark to get some times just a little faster than the world record but I suppose a strat/skill demo is way better than nothing. I disagree with these rules also applying to the GBA games. The whole essence of GBA games is that they are mobile and you can play them anywhere you'd like. In my opinion a strat/skill demo is what should therefore be sufficient for those games.

JkLoser
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WMJ wrote:
Yazzo wrote:

"although this discussion is specifically for F-Zero X."

it shouldnt be just for X. general forums anyone?

making a video is also hard for some people, but everyone can take a photo and upload it. it would be enough for me, regardless if it's for the GBA F-Zero's or for the console ones.

It's fine by me if you want to expand this topic to make it relevant for all F-Zero games since they all need to have some hard rules on this.

I don't see why making a video is hard for some people when it comes to the regular console games. If you're willing to put in the time to beat a world record you should be at least able to record it on a VCR. You can record the VCR footage with a digicam or whatever as long as people can watch it. I don't know about anyone else but when I beat a world record it is something I'm proud of having achieved, so it's an honor for me to release a video to the public that people are willing to watch.

Regardless, if it's really a problem for someone to release a video I'd be willing to make a high quality video for them but then you'd have to send the tape or DVD to me.

 

Now, you don't see why making video is hard on console games? cause we don't have vcr? and why hard for people on GBA? they can buy a gc and gba player. same thing. BTW, I'm just doing this to see how well you thought it through ;)

No matter what, if the same rules aren't for all games in the proving matter where the replay mode doesn't exist, I'll do as I have allways, picture, or perhaps demo video with my top 5 times. if someone doesn't believe it, thought for them, I know I have the wr, and most likly plenty others will believe me.

Old and tired... ;p
Westu
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JkLoser wrote:
WMJ wrote:
Yazzo wrote:

"although this discussion is specifically for F-Zero X."

it shouldnt be just for X. general forums anyone?

making a video is also hard for some people, but everyone can take a photo and upload it. it would be enough for me, regardless if it's for the GBA F-Zero's or for the console ones.

It's fine by me if you want to expand this topic to make it relevant for all F-Zero games since they all need to have some hard rules on this.

I don't see why making a video is hard for some people when it comes to the regular console games. If you're willing to put in the time to beat a world record you should be at least able to record it on a VCR. You can record the VCR footage with a digicam or whatever as long as people can watch it. I don't know about anyone else but when I beat a world record it is something I'm proud of having achieved, so it's an honor for me to release a video to the public that people are willing to watch.

Regardless, if it's really a problem for someone to release a video I'd be willing to make a high quality video for them but then you'd have to send the tape or DVD to me.

 

Now, you don't see why making video is hard on console games? cause we don't have vcr? and why hard for people on GBA? they can buy a gc and gba player. same thing. BTW, I'm just doing this to see how well you thought it through Wink

No matter what, if the same rules aren't for all games in the proving matter where the replay mode doesn't exist, I'll do as I have allways, picture, or perhaps demo video with my top 5 times. if someone doesn't believe it, thought for them, I know I have the wr, and most likly plenty others will believe me.

what kind of person doesnt have a VCR... or maybe even recording DVD player... anyhow

this set of rules obviously cannot apply to GBA games since their meant to be portable and there's no real secrets with the strat in those games... this was thought up as of a policy for X mainly but the process kinda made it more universal so everything might not be so "thought out" as you'd want em to be.... it was also brought up cuz of these random unproven WRs like SA speed, PT2 speed where ppl just post the what they got and forget the whole thing like its just another banged woman... hit it and throw it away... NOT a way to go in both of these fields if you gonna get lucky in either of em trust me Razz

and joel dont mess this topic up now

"GX sucks big balls" -BPA
"anyhow westu's FF time is godly i don't think any player will ever beat it" -JKT.... touch� Neutral
"non-f-zero games, Yugioh, MV" -JkL
"The Westu" -Sherif
"You are the only player i fear when you play" -Daniel
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