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Any new world record set for either F-Zero, F-Zero X or F-Zero GX needs to have video proof
I agree
71%
 71%  [ 10 ]
I do not agree
28%
 28%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 14

WMJ
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F-Zero X proof policy regarding world records
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Root Topic

In agreement with Tim and Westu I decided to create this topic to get some hard rules regarding proof for world records.
For now, this topic is meant for discussion so we can all agree on some rules everyone can live with. I hate to be a big meanie and ask for video proof everytime so that's why I think it is important to have some hard rules. I'll edit this post so the rules that are agreed upon are listed here.
I'll start with one rule regarding world records that I think is the most important .

1. If you beat a world record you need to have video proof.
The only notable exception to this are maxed out speed records like Sector Beta.

2. If you get a world record and submit it to MFO, make sure to drop a notification in the forum.

Reason: If nobody ever cared to make videos of anything, would we have a competition like this today? I don't think so. Besides, the world records require a very high level of skill at this point. People like Westu, me, JKT, Dave Phaneuf, Muumu, UchihaSasuke and Linner have all put in much time to make videos of our records. Outside of the element of trust that video proof provides it is also very important for supporting the community and keeping this competition alive.
 

Personally I think this is the most important rule. It is important for the protection of world records and it should benefit everyone.

Edit: rule 2 is added and I agree with Tim although you would need to do that anyway if you're going to provide the video proof.

JkLoser
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 I might just mess around, but I'm unto something here...

In general, if someone breaks a wr, and is a newcomer, doesn't he show proof, people laugh at him, and make him so sad he leaves[like what happens in the snes forums like twice a year, wich btw is so fun]. I'm not saying that I shouldn't provide proof for example, I'm just saying that if you think a wr is fake, or know, and doesn't even get a picture, or even worse, the strat, delete the time, delete the dude, call him names!

Secondly, this whole thing with GBA being portable shouldn't have anything with it to do. a WR is a WR. If a site require official WR videos from some games, it should from another game.

VCR is stoneage, someone that has moved out from their parrents, latly[say those that are 18-24] most likly doesn't have a vcr, unless they had their own before, even then it's unlikly, cause we throw the crap away :P and recording DVD players I don't know the price of, but then again I move back to that GBA players could buy a gc and gba player to record wrs.

Secondly, so if I brake a wr without changing the strat, I don't need to provide video? cause that's the reason why it doesn't apply to gba? that makes sense I guess.

I want everything to be thought out, I understand new problems you didn't count on could come up, but you know I troll here :p but in a more serius tone, doubtful wrs, without proof, DELETE. I don't give a F... if he says he got it, if he can't take a photo, PHOTO IS MINIMUM, DEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELETE :P doesn't anyone understand common sense these days? Just check how we deal with snes people without proof, we make them look dumb, so they leave.

[I hope people don't come nagging on all of my unproven wrs ;p]

Old and tired... ;p
BPA
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"there's no real secrets with the strat in those games."

Really? News to me. Trying to capture nuances in text-strats for MV for instance is near impossible.

Anywho, mostly in agreement, but it's pretty hard to make vids for every WR -- some stuff is too spur of the moment to capture (that quick 5 minute burst becomes something a little more, think we've all been there). I think players who are proven (i.e. have created videos in the past or have some real-life accord, for instance both me and WMJ have met Karel van Duijvenboden and Michael Jongerius, so they can vouch for our abilities; or if that German X meet goes ahead) still have to have a duty to create video proof if it's at their disposal, but it wouldn't be a clear-cut "vid proof or you're banned" policy towards them. The odd missing video can always be accounted for, and can even act as a spur to get that 'missing' slot filled. Those who are unproven would require 100% documentation, until such a time when they can be completely trusted. Just my two cents.

And I have great difficulty getting VHR/DVD recs hooked up to consoles, though for different reasons than me being too retarded to work out how (which is also not necessarily out the picture either hah)

Uchiha Madao
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when i meant the top 3-5 was the top 3-5 players of the mfo ladder, not your top 3-5 times in the records screen.

sorry if that was unclear.

for the record, anyone claiming sub 1'58 in MC1 in FZSNES is lying unless they provide proof of a new strat since the current strat can't get that sub and most people who arrive new there want to pass shit like 1'56 as a WR.

WMJ
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JkLoser wrote:

Now, you don't see why making video is hard on console games? cause we don't have vcr? and why hard for people on GBA? they can buy a gc and gba player. same thing. BTW, I'm just doing this to see how well you thought it through Wink

No matter what, if the same rules aren't for all games in the proving matter where the replay mode doesn't exist, I'll do as I have allways, picture, or perhaps demo video with my top 5 times. if someone doesn't believe it, thought for them, I know I have the wr, and most likly plenty others will believe me.

I don't understand why you're attacking using a VCR so much. Almost anyone has one these days and besides I already said you can record the videos with whatever makes you happy as long as it is watchable for other people. Essentially banning the use of a GBA for GBA games and force top players to play on a GB player is ridiculous as the GBA is the platform the games were obviously meant for in the first place. Sure, you can record the GBA with a camera but that requires a setup that you can't just take with you so it would destroy the mobile element of GBA gaming as well. 

BPA wrote:

"there's no real secrets with the strat in those games."

Really? News to me. Trying to capture nuances in text-strats for MV for instance is near impossible.

Anywho, mostly in agreement, but it's pretty hard to make vids for every WR -- some stuff is too spur of the moment to capture (that quick 5 minute burst becomes something a little more, think we've all been there). I think players who are proven (i.e. have created videos in the past or have some real-life accord, for instance both me and WMJ have met Karel van Duijvenboden and Michael Jongerius, so they can vouch for our abilities; or if that German X meet goes ahead) still have to have a duty to create video proof if it's at their disposal, but it wouldn't be a clear-cut "vid proof or you're banned" policy towards them. The odd missing video can always be accounted for, and can even act as a spur to get that 'missing' slot filled. Those who are unproven would require 100% documentation, until such a time when they can be completely trusted. Just my two cents.

And I have great difficulty getting VHR/DVD recs hooked up to consoles, though for different reasons than me being too retarded to work out how (which is also not necessarily out the picture either hah)

Exactly, there are nuances that make a world record a world record that are not easy to capture in a strat demo either.
 I don't think banning anyone for an unproven world record claim is really necessary. I suppose the worst that can happen is that the world record is not recognised as such or in extreme cases such as obvious spammers a ban maybe.  
As for hooking up a VCR you can just run the signal straight through it and record. You can also hook the console up normally and use the tv-out to connect it to the vcr if the tv has that. For DVD recorders there is lag when you run the signal straight through it, so you would either need to use the tv-out or an amplified signal splitter (something I use) but those are expensive.

JkLoser
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 Not everyone has a VCR, and those who hasn't can have a problem getting one.

 

I'm just saying, trust people. Cause people you can trust, often will provide proof if asked. if they can't provide proof, they can't be trusted. kinda simple. I won't record every record I get for console games, cause simply, I won't waste 100th of batteries for my cam, and I won't waste time looking up where to get a vcr. 

Old and tired... ;p
Uchiha Madao
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you could get a dvd recorder instead of a vcr.

but then you need extra setup.

JkLoser
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Well, I understand you want a video for everything. But I can only do like this:

Get the time - Save the ghost - Race against ghost while recording - Show my top 5 times in moving motion

That's what I can do for f-zero X. Yes I could use gameshark to slightly beat the wr, but I save my ghost, you'll notice if the ghost is driving faster or not.

Now, if that isn't enough I don't care, I'll just do it anyway. Some people will accept it as a wr, some won't. And I'm not the one that cares if people believe me, or call me a cheater. That's how my 3 first years was here ;p

Accept those kind of videos also, cause everyone has access to a cam[5euro] or one of the cheaper camera that can record[30euro maybe?]. Quality won't be the best, but atleast a video. Also, most here knows who they can trust and who they can't trust. For example, if UHD make a wr in X, would you believe his word just? :p

Westu needs some love, everyone should send him roses =)

Old and tired... ;p
2000kmporhora
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i don't agree...

since, some people doesn't have cmaeras, or a good pc to record the movies( i was one of these), because of this...

-ta olhando o q?!-
Uchiha Madao
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the majority already decided to make proof required. there has been too many attempts to pass fake times as real (especially in FZSNES)

also, if you're going to spend hundreds of hours to get a WR, spending some money in a good recording device should be considered. you wouldn't want to waste all that effort and showing everyone a vid of your wr is much better than just doing it and no one being able to watch.

CGN
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What's this? Proving the WRs with vids? Why? If you want a proof then send a picture of the record with splits. You who doesn't like us who can't record, don't want to or have other reasons of recording are just annoying. Be happy with a picture. You might become curious with a picture only of the time, because you can easely fake it. ( However, who is such a no-lifer and fake times?) It's harder to fake split-times I think, so I would be happy with them. Some people want to have WR strats for themself and they should be allowed to do that. People are just jealous. I remember a topic about a god at FZGeks who had great times with proof pictures but no vids. People complained and got pissed because they wasn't good enough to beat him. He had lots of great strats that was real before he made vids in (High Quality). Some doesn't want to waste the great WRs with $hitty quality vids like JKL, Westu quality. (Sorry for pointing out the quality). (I don't know why JKL uploaded so many of the great WRs he got in åss quality. He got some old high quality vids, too, though,)

this video WR thingie currently only counts for F-Z eks, or?  

I don't agree with the ''proof policy post'' I disagree with this topic. But that's my opinion I guess.

Sorry, I can't write ''eks '' atm. Neutral

Uchiha Madao
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pics are easy to fake. grab a GS, set a time and then take a pic.

that's why video proof is required.

if you don't like it, tough luck bro. sucks for legitimate players without recording equipment but it is the only way to cut 99% of the cheaters.

people here are also bitter after the FZSNES incident, myself included.

JkL's PC or capture card broke or something. that's why he went back to cam. westu never had a capture card but his "$hitty" vids were actually the most secure ones to be legitimate since you can't fake that kind of vid.

sometimes, having too good quality might confuse people. my SA PR was recorded with my DVD recorder and i made it with the best quality i could and then i had some noobs claiming it was made with an emulator.

btw, i strongly believe that if someone is going to invest hours of his life and a lot of effort in a WR, they should be able to save a bit of money to buy a device to make vids. it doesn't have to be DVD quality vids. westu-quality vids are enough for proof. above that is more to please everyone but the minimum is a watchable vid that showcases your run and time.

WMJ
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UchihaSasuke wrote:

pics are easy to fake. grab a GS, set a time and then take a pic.

that's why video proof is required.

if you don't like it, tough luck bro. sucks for legitimate players without recording equipment but it is the only way to cut 99% of the cheaters.

people here are also bitter after the FZSNES incident, myself included.

JkL's PC or capture card broke or something. that's why he went back to cam. westu never had a capture card but his "$hitty" vids were actually the most secure ones to be legitimate since you can't fake that kind of vid.

sometimes, having too good quality might confuse people. my SA PR was recorded with my DVD recorder and i made it with the best quality i could and then i had some noobs claiming it was made with an emulator.

btw, i strongly believe that if someone is going to invest hours of his life and a lot of effort in a WR, they should be able to save a bit of money to buy a device to make vids. it doesn't have to be DVD quality vids. westu-quality vids are enough for proof. above that is more to please everyone but the minimum is a watchable vid that showcases your run and time.

Exactly, picture proof is really meaningless and you might as well not submit it. I remember last year a Star Fox 64 player who was in the ranking for more than a year and broke a lot of the world records was constantly proving his records with picture proof. A lot of people doubted the legitimacy of his records but there was no way to disprove it until he made a Super Smash Bros. "world record" video by filming his computer monitor to make an edited screenshot look like it was displaying on his tv. In theory you could even pass TAS videos off as real like this by connecting the output of your video card to a tv and filming the tv screen but there will always be people critically watching these videos.

This is just one bad example but there are many like the F-Zero SNES incident. This is unfortunately why all the good people have to suffer from the few bad apples. Even outside of this I don't think it's very fair to keep strategies secret even after you got a world record with them since a lot of people have put a lot of work in describing strategies and making tutorial videos etc. to help others. If you like secret strategies you should go to Twin Galaxies since all they care about there is the record itself.

CKeegan
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Luckily with F-Zero X, emulators have a major flaw which is when you double tap, the ring around your car is multicolored/clear instead of red.

Easy enough to notice, so videos will also have to be monitored.

FunStyle
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nah.Another thing.If you´re getting a speed over 2000 the stripes are very big.But the emulator and plugins i use are very similar to the N64

Mystic
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RULES REGARDING EMULATORS
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WMJ wrote:

In agreement with Tim and Westu I decided to create this topic to get some hard rules regarding proof for world records.
For now, this topic is meant for discussion so we can all agree on some rules everyone can live with. I hate to be a big meanie and ask for video proof everytime so that's why I think it is important to have some hard rules. I'll edit this post so the rules that are agreed upon are listed here.
I'll start with one rule regarding world records that I think is the most important .

1. If you beat a world record you need to have video proof.
The only notable exception to this are maxed out speed records like Sector Beta.

2. If you get a world record and submit it to MFO, make sure to drop a notification in the forum.

Reason: If nobody ever cared to make videos of anything, would we have a competition like this today? I don't think so. Besides, the world records require a very high level of skill at this point. People like Westu, me, JKT, Dave Phaneuf, Muumu, UchihaSasuke and Linner have all put in much time to make videos of our records. Outside of the element of trust that video proof provides it is also very important for supporting the community and keeping this competition alive.
 

Personally I think this is the most important rule. It is important for the protection of world records and it should benefit everyone.

Edit: rule 2 is added and I agree with Tim although you would need to do that anyway if you're going to provide the video proof.

Well, video rule is fine but the emulator rule is what bugs me. I know, I know that people can use save states and things like that on emulators. But what if they provide sufficient proof in the video  that they haven't. I mean I play on an emulator(project 64) and have gotten pretty good in just 4 months. My highest speed being 2820 in space plant and I got 57''600 in fire field without any save states but my situation does not allow me to get the real game console and it isn't even available around my place. So if I want to submit my times, and have sufficient proof that no save states have been used or other things like that and that it is simple 3 lap driving, can I have my times also in the ladder?

Uchiha Madao
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sorry bud but it won't work. if we accept your times, we'll just open the floodgates for real cheaters to use savestates and abuse the system. they'll do whatever you do to pass illegal stuff as legal and then claim that it is legal and point at you to give weight to their argument.

it sucks for people like you who don't have any way to get the game + console and want to compete legitimately but you should blame the malicious people who made us make these rules in the first place.  we made them to protect the competition against that kind of thing.

the only alternative i can suggest is to get a Wii and download FZX on it since that's a legal emulator because you can't use savestates and stuff there for sure (note: only the VC release. homebrew emulators are banned too)

snubnose
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Mystic wrote:

my situation does not allow me to get the real game console and it isn't even available around my place.

Whats the problem with bying it on ebay? With 30-40 Euros and an PayPal-Account it should easily be possible for you to buy it.

CKeegan
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Out of curiosity:

Say you had a world record, legitimately done on console, but you didn't record it.
Would there be a way to still show it and gain the WR?
For example, using a ghost and showing your ghost playing or making a video of you checking your records screen for that time and then playing on the console to show it has been done on console?

Uchiha Madao
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well, a long time ago that's how we got proof for some WRs. the player would record a vid of his time vs the WR ghost and it could be concluded it is legit if the difference between the WR time and the time he gets in the run match up.

you would need to be a very trusted player to get away with that.

FunStyle
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WMJ wrote


Reason: If nobody ever cared to make videos of anything, would we have a competition like this today? I don't think so. Besides, the world records require a very high level of skill at this point. People like Westu, me, JKT, Dave Phaneuf, Muumu, UchihaSasuke and Linner have all put in much time to make videos of our records. Outside of the element of trust that video proof provides it is also very important for supporting the community and keeping this competition alive.
 

Personally I think this is the most important rule. It is important for the protection of world records and it should benefit everyone.

Let's reawake this topic a bit. It's now over 2 Years ago since we got this rule.That i was the reson for this rule, everyone knows.It's just about Wouter atm,i would write him on MSN bur for some reason it's not possible. And i don't want to say that's about skill that i think there was a game just against me of the complete MFO staff. I checked the Records page and saw that Daniel got an DF1 lap World record on 31th July. I mean it's not about his skill or sth,but he did not tell me about it and so i just got to know about it cause i checked. And Tim told me a few months ago that Wouter edits the records page.Interesting...The most important rule for you is that you get vids from new World Records.And then something like that? Nice game,nice. I mean i ever knew that it all was about me,but now i have the proof for it.I already wondered why my MC1 is on the chart since i just came up with a video of my records page.And why is that Proof policy just in X ? - I mean in SNES you need a video of course,otherwise really noone truts you,even if you are the best player in the world.But why is there for example no proof policy in GX? I know why: Im not active and good enough for WRs there.And there are also several people who don't come up with Videos.There is no records chart,but that doesnt mean that the best time is a WR right?

I really would like to have a response,you also can make everything clear.( Of course i copy my post,cause maybe it gets deleted once again)

The Legend never dies-
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