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CGN
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Tool-Assisted Speedrun(s)
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Root Topic

Here is the first TAS ever made of F-Zero GX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1AsNpV4c0U

The result isn't that amazing, and that's because I can't play perfectly with the board. There isn't any option to ''Frame Advance'' either, which is a huge loss for optimization.

To those of you who does not know what a TAS is, a TAS is a run made with an emulator where special tools are available, such as: frame-by-frame speed, and re-recording from save states, which are used constantly throughout the run in order to make it as optimal as possible.

Note: When Snaking is optimized, it looks quite different from what we have been used to see. Formerly, it was optimal to make wide Snaking patterns to gain as much speed as possible. However, in a TAS, by alternating between L+left & right+R every other frame, it is possible to gain speed beyond what traditional strides are capable of. Additionally, when tool-assisted, it accelerates slightly faster, meaning that the traditional Snaking is most likely to become left out in most cases when making TASes.

-Tool-Assisted Snaking technique, discovered by Mugg1991. Alternate technique name would be Shaking.

YouTube playlist of most F-ZERO GX TASes made so far: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9B347D67216AA868

2nd smaller TAS topic which was made later for whatever reason:

http://fzerocentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=13941

samurai goroh
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Nice video, insanely fast too :)
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Uchiha Madao
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Re: Nice video, insanely fast too :)
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another insane TAS by our resident TAS maker.

"Patience is useful in any moment"
jktfzerox
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Re: Nice video, insanely fast too :)
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Nicely done. From what i can see in the youtube vid although since its not 60 fps, this is what i believe
that went on in that run, first it starts with...

B,Snake,B,Snake,MTS,MBD,SB,MT,SB,MBD,MT,SB,MBD,MT,MBD,
SB,B,MT,MTS,SB,MBD,MTS,SB,MBD,MTS,SB,MBD,MT,MTS,SB,
MBD,MT,MTS,MBD,B,SB,MT,MBD,SB,MT,MTS,SB,MBD,MT,MTS,
MBD,SB,SB,B,MT,MTS,MBD,SB,MT,MTS,MBD,SB,MTS,MBD,SB,
MBD,MTB,MTS,MBD,SB,MT,MTS,MBD,SB,MT,SB,MBD,MTB,MD that goes airborne.

Which all happened in a matter of 11 seconds heh, i may have missed something in there inbetween but it looks about right.
Seems liked everytime you resume from an MT or MTS while off balanced you get a nice Shiftboost to keep the speed up at all times.
Most people who aren't familiar with GX would probably think where in the heck did you get all that speed from heh.


Anyway keep up the goodwork Smile  I am also TAS'n again but so far its been pretty slow.


 

MC1 [S1] [SO1] DF1 [BB1] PT1
SA RC1 DF2 MC2 BB2 WL1
[FF] S2 SB RC2 [WL2] [MC3]
RR DF3 SP SO2 PT2 BH

S3 SO3 [DF4] PT3 DF5 BB3
[MC4] SP2 PT4 FF2 WL3 BF
CGN
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Can't believe you actually took the time to analyse the video. Mostly of what you wrote is correctly I guess.  Razz

I think I'm going to make a near optimized max speed version of chapter 5 next.

Are you TASing F-Zero X again, perhaps? I've always enjoyed your work, so I'm looking forward to it.

CGN
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Horrible news, everyone.

I had finished my Cosmo Terminal - Trident TAS quite a while ago, but for whatever reason I can't find any solution to playback the replay properly with the replay mode. What happens is that the replay starts to do inputs at some point that I haven't even made in the actual run, (could be desyncs, I'm not sure). It also just starts to ''white out''/quit from the replay mode even though the run is not finished yet. If you want to check out what I mean in a video instead, you can take a look at it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQJRg7pZ5DU

As you can see in the video, the machine just crashed because of incorrect movements and therefore the replay gets forced to stop. You might be thinking the death is the reason why it quit from the replay mode, right? That's what I thought at first, but with further research I don't think that's the reason after all, because recently I've tried to load earlier save states before this crash, to see if I can redo this part of the run, so it can be replayed properly. I loaded the save states and just ran through the rest of the course without any additional save states or anything, just to see if it would playback like it was supposed to in the replay mode. However, when I playback those replays it starts to white out at a random spot around the finish line during the 2nd lap although the machine did not crash or fall off course. So why does this happen? I've tried to load and finish the race with several memory cards, which seems to have some affect, but other than that I don't know.

This certainly does not want to work, and I really don't know what's going on anymore, and why Dolphin has to malfunction all of a sudden. I'm considering to give up very soon and stop wasting my time on this. I've worked on this TAS for more than 80 hours, so making another one is something I won't do unless I'm 100% sure that something as ridiculous as this won't happen.

There might be a solution that can fix this, but I might never find it. The only reason why I still have hope to find the solution is because I've seen the ghost file playback perfectly.

TBK
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That really stinks. I assume you didn’t use re-record and only savestates? If I use re-record from the start on VBA-RR I have always access to the whole run unless I delete the movie file. To me it almost seems like you went too far with that run so the replay can’t be processed properly.

Yazzo
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 man that's super unfortunate... i really hope there's still a solution.

Uchiha Madao
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have you tried telling the dolphin staff about this problem (that is, if they have contact information available)?

it might be an emulation glitch that went unnoticed until you pushed the game this far. there's a few things that surface in TASes like this because the game gets to limits it never had reached before and no one could have known about those specific glitches at that point.

i thought it might be due to too many inputs but i bet there's other replays out there with more inputs that finish fine.

"Patience is useful in any moment"
isamu
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UchihaSasuke wrote:

have you tried telling the dolphin staff about this problem (that is, if they have contact information available)?

it might be an emulation glitch that went unnoticed until you pushed the game this far. there's a few things that surface in TASes like this because the game gets to limits it never had reached before and no one could have known about those specific glitches at that point.

i thought it might be due to too many inputs but i bet there's other replays out there with more inputs that finish fine.

Yeah, it seems this feature in Dolphin is still extremely preliminary and broken. Which is unfortunate because I'd love to see some you guys' TAS runs. I'm really really hoping the Devs will fix the in-game recording/playback feature in Dolphin because in theory it is one of the most awesome features ever 

In the meantime, would it be possible to share your F-ZeroGX runs, but in a replay file rather than a TAS file?

CGN
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TBK, the option re-record isn't available, and it isn't really needed to as far as I've understood, because when you load a save state (with a .DTM file recording), it will restart from that save state with all of the proper inputs most of the time. The reason why I choose not to make it this way is because desyncs are recorded from this quite often with Dolphin. Instead I made this TAS the same way I made my SOLS TAS, by just saving and loading save states throughout the run without any demand for a .DTM file to playback properly when the run is done. Before I made this TAS I thought the replay mode couldn't fail, but I was certainly wrong about that...

Uchiha, I could try to contact them and see if they can do anything about it.

isamu, I only share my F-Zero GX runs through videos, because I play on console. I only use Dolphin to make TAS videos.

Also, as earlier mentioned, it has to be possible to use the replay mode, because the ghost of this TAS runs through the course just fine...

WMJ
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CGN wrote:

TBK, the option re-record isn't available, and it isn't really needed to as far as I've understood, because when you load a save state (with a .DTM file recording), it will restart from that save state with all of the proper inputs most of the time. The reason why I choose not to make it this way is because desyncs are recorded from this quite often with Dolphin. Instead I made this TAS the same way I made my SOLS TAS, by just saving and loading save states throughout the run without any demand for a .DTM file to playback properly when the run is done. Before I made this TAS I thought the replay mode couldn't fail, but I was certainly wrong about that...

Uchiha, I could try to contact them and see if they can do anything about it.

isamu, I only share my F-Zero GX runs through videos, because I play on console. I only use Dolphin to make TAS videos.

Also, as earlier mentioned, it has to be possible to use the replay mode, because the ghost of this TAS runs through the course just fine...

So if I understand correctly even if you load a save state from when you finish your TAS run and you see the final time of the race and you continue the game normally and you choose replay from the in game menu it won't play?

CGN
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Yes, that's correct, WMJ. The in-game replay mode can only play the replay file until the end of the 2nd lap.

WMJ
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CGN wrote:

Yes, that's correct, WMJ. The in-game replay mode can only play the replay file until the end of the 2nd lap.

Well if you think about it, you have finished the race in the game and you replay it via the in-game menu than the game does not make use of the TAS input file. I can see if you actually would replay the TAS file that the input file got corrupted at the 2nd lap that you could get something like this but if the game itself can't replay it than at some point during gameplay something happened the game/emulator cannot handle. Of course I'm not sure but otherwise it doens't really make sense to me. What's really strange is that you can't replay the TAS file. Maybe due to emulation issues you somehow bypassed an event that the game can't handle during the TAS but when encoutered again by replaying the file you can't bypass it again. It could be an emulator thing since it worked when you where doing it at slow speeds making the TAS but at full speeds there's maybe too much going on? You can try asking at the TAS forum if you can somehow edit the TAS/ fix this but I think worst case you have to do the last lap again from right before the point where the crash happens. That's some really bad luck Sad.

CGN
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If I can't get the file to work, I'll probably have to redo the entire TAS. As I've mentioned earlier, if I load an old save state before this occurred and drive through the rest of the course very slowly without any additional save states, it just starts to white out/end during the replay around the finish line of the 2nd lap, even though I did not crash or fall off course.

WMJ
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CGN wrote:

If I can't get the file to work, I'll probably have to redo the entire TAS. As I've mentioned earlier, if I load an old save state before this occurred and drive through the rest of the course very slowly without any additional save states, it just starts to white out/end during the replay around the finish line of the 2nd lap, even though I did not crash or fall off course.

 

Seriously horrible glitch trol I don't know how to fix this Sad.

WMJ
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CGN wrote:

If I can't get the file to work, I'll probably have to redo the entire TAS. As I've mentioned earlier, if I load an old save state before this occurred and drive through the rest of the course very slowly without any additional save states, it just starts to white out/end during the replay around the finish line of the 2nd lap, even though I did not crash or fall off course.

I think your best bet is to try this method to try to fix it http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11856

CGN
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Yeah, hex editing solved the issue with my Chapter 5 TAS, which used a .DTM file. However, this time it is required that I edit the memory card file. I don't know what part of the file I'm supposed to edit there, and the file is really huge, too, which makes it even harder to edit. Unfortunately I think it will be impossible for me to do it this way.

Uchiha Madao
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if this doesn't have a solution. it will be the bummer of the decade.

also, have you tried transferring the replay to a memory card to play on an actual GC with the disc? that could at least tell us if it is an emulator or game problem.

i don't have a 3rd party memory card to test but i bet someone here has one (homebrew copy applications on Wii only work with 3rd party cards).

"Patience is useful in any moment"
CGN
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Uchiha, that's exactly what I have been doing these past days. I ordered a memory card a few days ago so I could try this. I have already tried this a year ago with a homebrew application, but it didn't work. (Maybe because I used an original memory card back then?)

CGN
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OK, so the file got transferred successfully with a 3rd party memory card. However, when it is replayed on a console it starts to white out/end as soon as the countdown is finished... I've had a similar issue with Dolphin by trying to load a replay made with another revision of Dolphin. Not sure why it has to happen, though. Also, for some reason in the replay menu it says that the replay file is from 2042, lol. CTT WR from 2042.

I don't think I will be able to replay this file correctly...

Edit: Tried the same with a random working replay, but it does also end as soon as the countdown is finished.

Edit: I just played the ghost file on console. It works perfectly, just like it does on Dolphin.

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